[Donna]

I have a blog entry on the above-subject (January 2007) and I entitled it as Why I prefer to not to instruct users to search it yourself to find the website of an application?

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Ever since I started helping in any community forums, I never and do not suggest to new users or beginners to search the tool or any application using any web search engine e.g. google.com, yahoo.com etc.

I have nothing against the online search engines/services but we need to know that we are dealing with new users (also known as beginners) and one main reason why I prefer to not to direct users to search it by them self to find the website of an application is because:

“There are companies that exploit the name or domain name of a popular tool or application”

That is quite true and happened many times. Just look at fellow MVP Eric L. Howes’ webpage on Rogue/Suspect Anti-Spyware Products & Web Sites, there are number of rogue products that exploits and imitate the legitimate applications.

The above main reason is also the reason on why I requested to Anti-Spyware Coalition (ASC) (last year) to link to their member’s website. They previously list their members’ name only (the company name) but it is not linked to the website of their member. If a user who is viewing the site and use an online search service, there is a chance for the searcher/user to fall to a domain or application that was or is being exploited or imitated by bad guys. I salute ASC for considering my feedback/suggestion.

And because of the above… I thought about blogging this request:

I hope people who wish to help users at any discussion forums will avoid telling/instructing a beginner who are seeking help to “search it yourself” at this and that online search service. The beginner might end up getting a fake or exploited application or going to fake website that offer fake products or products that is using the same name of the legitimate products.

It’s true that sending them to online search service will help them learn to catch the fish on their own but come on… read first what type of user we are dealing with. If it is a new or a beginner, please do not simply send to online search service to search by their own. We are helping them and I’m sure it will not hurt to extend another help by providing the link on a product or website that we recommend to them to use.

[johngalt]

I can see his point - but when reading a forum, for instance, I have no qualms about pointing a user, even a newbie, to the forum search tool, as they have to learn how to search sometime....

[Haroldo]

That all depends on the situation.
You have to be able to differentiate between someone who has the ability and understanding of what search is all about versus someone who is truly lost or clueless.
In most metropolitan areas there is a bus/subway map right next to the information booth. Some people can stare at the map all day and not figure it out. It would be rude for the person in the booth to say "...why you bothering me...look at the map!" (which means the exact same as "Google it!" or "Google is your friend!".
Similarly, if a newbie garners the courage to venture into the 'rough and tough' world of online forums (and if you are an experienced participant, you probably forgot how intimidating it is) we would be wrong to say "Google it!".
IMHO, it is a condescending and obnoxious reply intended to belittle the individual by declaring that they are wasting our time by asking such a question.
Search engines can catagorize most, if not all, of the internet which is the sum of the recorded information from all of its participants. There are very few problems that couldn't be resolved by searching. If the attitude is that web forums are only for information that can't be resolved by searching, then there would only be one forum in existence ( http://www.howtounderstandwomen.com **)
If someone doesn't have the time nor energy to reach down and help someone who is in need, they would be best to allow someone else to assist, rather than insult the other party for having the audacity to ask for assistance.
On a similar vein, I have no problem letting the person I help know how to find the information. If I searched Google for the answer to their problem, I will first address their problem, then I will provide a link ("...I found your answer here...") to the Google page I used to help them.


** I didn't know that was a real web site! I didn't think it was possible (to understand women).

[johngalt]

Sorry, Haroldo, but I disagree.

First of all, telling people to Google it can be wrong - and that is the point the author is making - however, I specifically referred to forums, because most Forum search is *not* Google powered, and is local - IE searches only the forums.

Second of all, one of the reasons people make mistakes or cannot find things is that 1) they don't think outside of the box, and 2) they don't bother to look at what the results are. Granted, I am not by *any* means a newbie - but I at least *read* what is going on before I open a link from Google - of course, I also have an idea on how to search more efficiently than most folks do, and I realize that web-sites can be spoofed, and I try to protect myself when surfing, etc. etc. - but the point is that, though there are some people who simply will not get it , there are more who simply won't *try*. We tend to coddle and hand-hold too much, and the result is that these same users keep coming back and asking questions without going out into the world and reading. Their computer came with a manual, their software came with a manual, and there is a *ton* of information out there if you just look for it.
What I like doing is answering a newbie (when searching the web) with the actual URL for the Google search I performed to find their answer - then, if they bother paying attention, they will see *how* I found it - as in what search terms I used to get what I wanted out of Google.

But in a totally local search, like most forums, I can't stand it when someone comes and asks the same question that has been asked 18 billion times - yes, I understand there is a newbie, but I don't *just* say go search - I provide the answer, relative links *and* mention that next time searching is a better way to answer you query.

Sorry, but we have coddled our newbies way too long - it's time they started learning, acting like adults and making choices for themselves.

If we give them the answer every time, then they will continue to expect us to give them the answer. Same thing applies with kids - we have to teach them.

"Chinese Proverb" said:

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."

[WiltedShoots]

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If we give them the answer every time, then they will continue to expect us to give them the answer.

At least they are seeking a solution to their problem.No law that says they have to understand computer security to any degree.Many elderly just don't get it and never will!
Sometimes Google shows a lot of threads that don't end with a definitive answer,so you end up wasting a lot of time with no results.
Maybe if you post your ? someone will know the solution of the top off their head.
I think there are too many meanies who act put upon when someone asks a ?,they should just not answer it.

This post has been edited by FortressX: 23 March 2007 - 11:10 AM

[Haroldo]

Most also like and NEED hand holding. I tried searching our forums for a few of the topics asked about in our beginner's help desk. One topic resulted in 4 pages of answers with no obvious thread title corresponding to the question. Another yielded no answers. I doubt searching (as a first step) would be the best advice for a newbie or intermediate user.
We all seem to agree that newbies need to learn how to find information, but when they are having a problem, the only thing they want is a solution.
Most newbies who do stay involved with the forums eventually learn how to figure out the problems for themselves.

[guest]

If Bart Simpson can handle it then so can newbies and his younger sister Lisa probably taught him how to us it in less than a minute.
Well that's if they had a high-speed Internet connection

[johngalt]

Let me re-iterate - I am not referring to Google / other *on-line* searches, but forum searching.

Haroldo, you make a great point - that is one of the biggest problems we face in that a newbie probably will not have the capacity to think outside the box and perform a valid search that will net good results. With that I agree 100% - *BUT* - if we teach them to search and point them to answers that exist, their answer is Immediate - they don't have to wait 5 hours, 5 minutes, or even 5 seconds for the answer - it is *right there*. In that respect, a compilation of answers, pointing to specific threads, or, even better, specific *posts*, would be the best thing a board could do, making it a sticky at the top of the forum / sub-forum.

Now, with regards to making things easier for newbies - in terms of Forums, the freshman and sophomore course that you did are great - those are great teaching tools in general. However, if this forum suffers from many questions being asked repeatedly, then a sort of index to point users to to find their own answers is a good thing too - at shemes, we put together a list of *frequently* requested features, with links (and multiple links, if they exist) to posts that already cover the requests - it has probably killed over half of our 'new' request threads as people actually read that post, find the request they want, and add to the existing thread.

Of course, I do realize that we need to cater to the newbies and the ones that would simply rather have someone else fix their computer for them rather than to learn how to maintain it themselves - we, just like auto mechanics, get to stay in business for that very reason. However, I still maintain that sending a user to the search button *tactfully* - a nice little nudge, perhaps not as harsh as the shemes mods can be at times, is *always* a good thing to do.

I will say this in closing - just pointing to a search is *always* wrong. If nothing else, I have learned that pointing to the *actual relevant thread(s) engenders (usually) a small modicum of respect and perhaps a measure of apology, if not abject embarrassment, but hen they at *least* try. I guess my main reason for pointing to search is because, especially at smaller sites, response time can be longer than a few hours - up to a day or so, and if the problem is urgent, then a day can seem like an eternity, whereas some calculated searching for 2 hours can save 22 hours.

P.S. - I also hate it when users, and especially newbies, come in *expecting* anything of the moderators of a board, or come at moderators with abusive attitudes, but that is not really within the scope of the original article.