[Donna]

You're welcome! Will add it also using SB Thanks for the idea! Long time I never add custom list.

[johngalt]

which means sites like this are going to have to promote tools, like PC-Decrapify a *lot* - and developers of such apps are going to have to be vigilant to make sure their apps actually remove all traces of these toolbars.

[hayc59]

Wow that suprises me to the core that Norton/Symantec would even have
a thought about adding this and then to do it!! adios and thanks Donna
I have posted a think hard and question about continuing to post updates
for NAV at BBR sec. mod section...will keep you posted

This post has been edited by hayc59: 11 February 2009 - 02:37 AM

[Donna]

Hi Gordon,

Thanks to you also since you're the one who first bring up to our attention the ask.com toolbar in Webroot Spy Sweeper and we did not expect others will follow

Quote

I have posted a think hard and question about continuing to post updates
for NAV at BBR sec. mod section...will keep you posted

Not sure if you guys stopped posting updates on other software that have Ask. If you do, my thoughts on that is... do the same. If we do for one, we will do to all
However, it's up to you guys. You guys have own policy for sure and that's good to discuss first.

[Donna]

johngalt, on Feb 10 2009, 04:39 PM, said:

which means sites like this are going to have to promote tools, like PC-Decrapify a *lot* - and developers of such apps are going to have to be vigilant to make sure their apps actually remove all traces of these toolbars.

Or users will just have to use few characters in command prompt: Format C:
Or insert the bootable DVD of Windows to delete, format and do a freah installation.

[hayc59]

Donna, on Feb 11 2009, 07:58 AM, said:

Hi Gordon,

Thanks to you also since you're the one who first bring up to our attention the ask.com toolbar in Webroot Spy Sweeper and we did not expect others will follow

Quote

I have posted a think hard and question about continuing to post updates
for NAV at BBR sec. mod section...will keep you posted

Not sure if you guys stopped posting updates on other software that have Ask. If you do, my thoughts on that is... do the same. If we do for one, we will do to all
However, it's up to you guys. You guys have own policy for sure and that's good to discuss first.

I cant force them to do anything they dont want to
but it give everyone food for thought...some folks
dont even mind the fact its happening!?

[Sunny]

Not sure where I found it anymore, it's been a while, but in case anyone wants it, here is the Comodo Ask toolbar CLSID (at least, the original iteration) from my Spywareblaster custom block list:

Comodo Trust Toolbar {D80E1356-AC78-4218-961C-A7689B4CB7FE}

My last clean install of Comodo Firewall was the version before Comodo added it in; since then I wait to determine whether forum members complain that the thing auto-installs even when they opt out (so far not) then eventually update from within the software over the current install. & of course I have this sitting in my Spywareblaster custom block list.

Eventually I'm going to have to switch to another fw -- sooner or later a new version will come out that will require a clean install & that will be that.

Thank you, Donna! for speaking out! It's disgraceful to have to waste all this time manually entering CLSIDs into Javacool's freeware to protect oneself from my protection. In the case of Freeware, the ostensible excuse is they need to support themselves somehow. But Symantec costs an arm & a leg!! It's pure greed, & a double disgrace!! I hope someone starts a class action suit to get refunds for breach of contract! Any lawyers reading this?

Now off I go to add in all the additional CLsids you list here that I don't have yet.

[Donna]

Hi Sunny!

Thanks for the additional CLSID info.

It's been many months since I tried Comodo Firewall Pro and I never get the chance to test it by waiting for program update and let it install on top of existing no-ASK embedded in the installer. I'm glad to hear that they are not (or have not) push the Ask if you will update within the program instead of downloading another installer that do not have Ask.

Quote

Eventually I'm going to have to switch to another fw -- sooner or later a new version will come out that will require a clean install & that will be that.

Good luck Sunny. I hope they will not even think of pushing it. Their firewall is one of the best (which is why I got to have it last time! even though I have another best one, Outpost). It's just their partnership made me wee-wee.

When I trusted, loved and care for a program... I will always use it but if I lost my trust .. I can't love it but can still care (I have the feeling that my feelings is normal? LOL) that's why we are calling their attention to please wake up. Security Software should be stand on their words.. to protect sincerely (whether it's free or paid). Instead of bluffing us by saying this "new addition will help protect your computer!" but when the user/customer installs it... ugh.. it's just their existing program/software/add-on/plug-in with Search Service by Ask in a toolbar (whoever's toolbar).

Quote

But Symantec costs an arm & a leg!! It's pure greed, & a double disgrace!!

I have to agree. It's just not acceptable. Whether it's free or not, it's not the way it should be. Our browsers is full of search services already! BTW, if you have not add CoU update search in your browser, please feel free to add

BTW, Corrine said in one of her comments.. Comodo is hypocrites and I have to agree.
See the comments at http://msmvps.com/blogs/donna/archive/2009...th-ask-com.aspx

[joe53]

Like Sunny, I held my nose and kept the Comodo Firewall Pro I had installed before Comodo added the Ask Toolbar (SafeSurf). I was even able to upgrade internally to Comodo Internet Security (CIS v3.5) last week and only the firewall was upgraded. No AV and no Ask Toolbar.

Today Comodo has released CIS 3.8, a major upgrade currently available only by downloading the installer, which requires uninstalling the current version:
http://forums.comodo.com/feedbackcommentsa...47314#msg247314

Later on in that same thread (reply#18), comment is made on the persistent attempts of SafeSurf to install in 3.8:
http://forums.comodo.com/feedbackcommentsa...47361#msg247361

A few posts later (reply#23), one of the Comodo forum moderators admits that SafeSurf isn't needed in this version, but guesses "... it's due to marketing (the Ask.com stuff)". Hmmm - do ya think?

So it looks like I will have to get rid of CIS. Too bad- it is a good free FW that worked well for me too.

[MysteryFCM]

Blogified, cheers for the heads up Joe

http://hphosts.blogspot.com/2009/02/comodo...-saying-no.html

[Donna]

Good info Joe! Good blog entry again Steven!

Quote

A few posts later (reply#23), one of the Comodo forum moderators admits that SafeSurf isn't needed in this version, but guesses "... it's due to marketing (the Ask.com stuff)". Hmmm - do ya think?

They made the partnership which means there's agreement. They agree to include it in their toolbar and to make it look good and essential protection, they embed the Comodo Memory Firewall Pro
Same tactic that Symantec is now doing: Norton Safe Web plugin is theirs then they partner to Ask and wanna tell us that it's essential to protect Norton users. It's marketing. It's $ when people pay for Norton. Another $ for Ask and Safe Web then another $ for subscription renewal after a year. Enough of Ask partnership. They can't even promote much their membership with AntiSpyware Coaliation since they cannot follow the simple guidelines: e.g. make sure your products will really help the user. Don't mislead your user. Detect what should be detected.

BTW, many of my stuff here (e.g IPBlocklist for Outpost, hosts file, WOT, Sitehound) will stop communication with trusttoolbar.com when I hit the forum link, Joe:

Example:
2_13_200...30_36_PM.jpg

Quote

Registrant:
Comodo CA Ltd
3rd Floor Building 26
Office Village Exchange Quay
Salford, Manchester M5 3EQ
GB

Registrar: DOTSTER
Domain Name: TRUSTTOOLBAR.COM
Created on: 15-FEB-01
Expires on: 15-FEB-10
Last Updated on: 26-JAN-09

Administrative, Technical Contact:
Abdulhayoglu, Melih domain-admin@comodogroup.com
Comodo CA Ltd
3rd Floor Building 26
Office Village Exchange Quay
Salford, Manchester M5 3EQ
GB
+44.1618747070
+44.1618771767

Domain servers in listed order:
NS0.COMODOGROUP.COM
NS0.GRADWELL.COM
NS2.GRADWELL.NET
NS1.GRADWELL.NET

http://www.robtex.co...oolbar.com.html

Quote

comodo.com a 91.199.212.132 www.comodo.com 91.199.212.0/24 AS48447
COMODO CA Ltd
comodo.net a 91.199.212.132 www.comodo.com
comodogroup.com a 91.199.212.132 www.comodo.com
comodogroup.net a 91.199.212.132 www.comodo.com
comodointernetsecurity.com a 91.199.212.132 www.comodo.com
comodomeet.net a 91.199.212.132 www.comodo.com
comodopartners.com a 91.199.212.132 www.comodo.com
comodorenewals.com a 91.199.212.132 www.comodo.com
enterprisessl.com a 91.199.212.132 www.comodo.com
nsclean.com a 91.199.212.132 www.comodo.com
personalfirewall.comodo.com a 91.199.212.132 www.comodo.com
trustix.com a 91.199.212.132 www.comodo.com
trusttoolbar.com a 91.199.212.132 www.comodo.com
www.comodo.com a 91.199.212.132
www.comodo.net a 91.199.212.132 www.comodo.com
www.comodoantispam.com a 91.199.212.132 www.comodo.com
www.comodogroup.com a 91.199.212.132 www.comodo.com
www.comodointernetsecurity.com a 91.199.212.132 www.comodo.com
www.instantssl.com a 91.199.212.132 www.comodo.com
www.personalfirewall.comodo.com a 91.199.212.132 www.comodo.com
www.personalfirewall.trustix.com a 91.199.212.132 www.comodo.com
www.trustix.com a 91.199.212.132 www.comodo.com
www.trustlogo.com a 91.199.212.132 www.comodo.com
www.trusttoolbar.com a 91.199.212.132 www.comodo.com
www.whichssl.com a 91.199.212.132 www.comodo.com
www.comodopartners.com cname comodopartners.com 91.199.212.132 www.comodo.com

http://www.robtex.co...99.212.132.html

http://www.mywot.com...rusttoolbar.com
http://hosts-file.ne...rusttoolbar.com

Green or a-ok over at:
http://www.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnos...rusttoolbar.com
http://www.siteadvis...rusttoolbar.com

http://trusttoolbar.com/


Hey, why are they NOT promoting that "secure" with Ask search service TrustToolbar in their Free downloads page at http://www.comodo.co...e_products.html (if it's really going to help user)
And Oh.. it's the family of their trusted products --> http://trusttoolbar....ucts/index.html

Attached thumbnail(s)

• 

[Sunny]

Joe, thanks for the info about the latest release

So far as I can tell from their forum, Comodo only released the full version (which has always incorporated the Ask toolbar), & there is no way to refuse Ask in this full version installation. I haven't come across mention of whether people have installed, then successfully removed it, as they have been doing till now, but only read several pages on the forum.

It seems that there will be an auto-update next week. Till now, the auto update hasn't incorporated Ask, but the question is whether that has changed now that the CMF is incorporated into Defense Plus. My concerns about Ask aside, from what I'm reading on the forum, this version seems quite buggy - longtime users systems are locked up, high CPU usage... let the guinea pigs do their thing & eventually we'll discover whether Ask is incorporated into the auto update or not, as well as whether the problems are widespread, easily resolved...

No matter what the immediate outcome, I believe that unless they make a radical move away from Ask, it's only a matter of time before I have to find another firewall solution. I'm hoping that Avira will come out with a newer version of software which will finally bring their suite into line with their outstanding antivirus.

I admit I am a bit curious to know whether this version of Comodo firewall defaults the firewall itself & svchost to 'outgoing priveleges' only, automatically stealths all ports by default - though of course the only way it will ever get onto my machine will be as an auto-update if it's Ask free & then it will use the settings I've already put in place, so it shouldn't matter to me.

[joe53]

Today I updated Comodo Internet Security via its internal updater to version 3.8.64739.471.

As far as I can tell, the Ask Toolbar and the Comodo AV (CAV) were not installed, and scans by my NOD32, MBAM, and a-squared anti-malware are clean. I retain only the Comodo firewall, which has served me well so far. And I note that the CIS firewall is the top-ranked free firewall by matousec:
http://www.matousec.com/projects/firewall-...nge/results.php

Which leaves me in a bit of a dilemma. I like the CIS firewall, but have reservations about the trustworthiness of Comodo, given its default inclusion of the Ask Toolbar. For now, I will stick with what I have, but will be monitoring my Comodo apps very closely.

This post has been edited by joe53: 20 February 2009 - 12:28 AM

[Donna]

weaselthatbites, on Feb 10 2009, 01:29 AM, said:

Does Ask toolbar have one particular CLSID ...or does each version bundled with each different piece of software have a different CLSID? (I was thinking of blocking any install of ASK by adding an etry into Spywareblaster). So if anyone knows the answer to that, much appreciated

Here's the up-to-date CLSID of Ask Toolbar and Ask Search. I got all these CLSIDs after I allow installation of the toolbar offered in Foxit Reader, Comodo Firewall, Spy Sweeper, ZoneAlarm and AVG8.

The vesion of Ask Toolbar is v4.1.05

{0702a2b6-13aa-4090-9e01-bcdc85dd933f} - Ask ToolbarSettings / Ask Toolbar Settings Plugin
{08993A7C-E764-4172-9627-BFB5EA6897B2} - askPopStp.dll / AskIBar.PopSwatterBarButton
{128A6C66-AC6A-4617-8268-AB7F47B7215E} - askPopStp.dll / AskIBar.PopSwatterSettingsControl.1
{201F27D4-3704-41D6-89C1-AA35E39143ED} - AskBar BHO
{3041D03E-FD4B-44E0-B742-2D9B88305F98} - Ask Toolbar
{4634804A-F0B0-4A74-A550-FC0EEF8A4362} - IAskIPopSwatterSettings
{4B1C1E16-6B34-430E-B074-5928ECA4C150} - Ask Toolbar 1.0 Type Library
{4C07EA4F-5F52-4222-B170-4CD9ED33BAEA} - IAskIPopSwatterSettingsEvents
{528B5866-2BA6-42ce-8F74-39FB23B49767} - Ask Toolbar
{571715D7-3395-4DF0-B43C-784836209E60} - PopupBlocker Server Class / askPopStp.dll
{622fd888-4e91-4d68-84d4-7262fd0811bf} - AskBar installer2 / askBar.dll
{9AFB8248-617F-460d-9366-D71CDEDA3179} - Treatas entry and detected currently Adware.MyWebSearch/FunWebProducts by SUPERAntispyware, A2 and few others. Norton detects is also last year.
{b0de3308-5d5a-470d-81b9-634fc078393b} - Ask Toolbar Quick View
{C44FEFF4-EF0C-4CF7-83D0-92B4266A32B9} - IAskISettings
{CF739809-1C6C-47C0-85B9-569DBB141420} - Ask Search
{E9A1DEE0-C623-4439-8932-001E7D17607D} - for Firefox as extension (whether FF is installed or not, this key will be created and the installer with Ask will create Mozilla Firefox folder if Firefox is not installed) ajtoolbar.jar
{EC1D2C70-8CDE-4013-BE72-2B08A2C54B6B} - Ask
{D2E5FA06-DCC7-46F9-BEFF-BFD06F69B9B2} - PopSwatter Control 1.0 Type Library
{F131923C-381D-4E4C-A472-4A17118FD742} - IAskISettingsEvents

The following keys were reported by McAfee as items added when installing Ask Toolbar (probably from older version of Ask Toolbar). Note: * exist also in above report/new version of Ask Toolbar or any toolbar with Ask Search Service:
{464D5661-3E12-415b-8DF1-8D986745149F}
{528B5866-2BA6-42ce-8F74-39FB23B49767} - *
{5A074B21-F830-49de-A31B-5BB9D7F6B407}
{89D30B4C-2408-4e78-A334-8FF8A9713EA7}
{960F88FD-56BE-4f63-AB76-5E3A1CCF6738}
{9AFB8248-617F-460d-9366-D71CDEDA3179} - *
{DEBF145B-366D-42ad-8FE1-A889C23C992D}
{EC1D2C70-8CDE-4013-BE72-2B08A2C54B6B} - *

Quote

It is detected as a "potentially unwanted program" (PUP). PUPs are any piece of software that a reasonably security- or privacy-minded computer user may want to be informed of and, in some cases, remove. PUPs are often made by a legitimate corporate entity for some beneficial purpose, but they alter the security state of the computer on which they are installed, or the privacy posture of the user of the system, such that most users will want to be aware of them.

http://vil.nai.com/v...nt/v_146646.htm
http://vil.nai.com/v...nt/v_146647.htm

The following items are in Sysinfo.org database:
{43D9E6F0-1776-4897-AE14-ECEDECBAFEC0} - askbarAB.dll, askbarAC.dll, askbarAD.dll, AskJeeves Toolbar
{4E7D0B40-F575-4A29-9710-4675EAF4686A} - Minijvab.dll, Mini Jeeves Toolbar
{92CBA277-292B-461f-9DEA-67A5C834E101} - Ask Jeeves toolbar, Linkmgr.dll

Below is in the database of Spywaredata.com
{4855C21B-E452-4661-A702-ED3493CE74DF} - askbarab.dll, askbarac.dll

I've added all of the above in Custom Blocking of SpywareBlaster and would like to test if it's going to prevent installation.
I installed the offending search service or toolbar the other day and yesterday and I noticed the following:
1. If user will opt out for Ask Toolbar in ZoneAlarm installer, the installer will still drop the z4barSpInstall.exe and AskInstallChecker.exe in the temp folder.
2. If user will opt out for Ask Toolbar in Foxit reader, the installer will only drop AskInstalleChecker.exe in temp folder.

c:\Documents and Settings\Donna\Local Settings\Temp\021909123321\ask_GLFD.tmp
Date: 6/19/2008 11:20 AM
Size: 57,517 bytes
c:\Documents and Settings\Donna\Local Settings\Temp\021909123321\AskInstallChecker.exe
Date: 10/25/2008 10:43 AM
Size: 54,664 bytes
c:\Documents and Settings\Donna\Local Settings\Temp\021909123321\GLFD.tmp
Date: 6/27/2008 4:06 PM
Size: 19,414 bytes
c:\Documents and Settings\Donna\Local Settings\Temp\021909123321\GLFE.tmp
Date: 7/10/2008 10:51 AM
Size: 17,646 bytes
c:\Documents and Settings\Donna\Local Settings\Temp\021909123321\GLFF.tmp
Date: 2/19/2009 12:36 PM
Size: 299 bytes
c:\Documents and Settings\Donna\Local Settings\Temp\021909123321\Microsoft_VC90_ReleaseCRT_x86.msi
Date: 5/27/2008 3:43 PM
Size: 1,693,184 bytes
c:\Documents and Settings\Donna\Local Settings\Temp\021909123321\vcredist.log
Date: 2/19/2009 12:33 PM
Size: 115,906 bytes
c:\Documents and Settings\Donna\Local Settings\Temp\021909123321\vsxml.dll
Date: 11/13/2008 3:18 PM
Size: 110,480 bytes
c:\Documents and Settings\Donna\Local Settings\Temp\021909123321\z4barSpInstall.exe
Date: 10/17/2008 3:21 PM
Size: 755,632 bytes

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\ShellNoRoam\MUICache "C:\DOCUME~1\Donna\LOCALS~1\Temp\fox3.tmp\AskInstallChecker.exe"
Type: REG_SZ
Data: AskInstallChecker

[Donna]

Dear All,

Below is my "end-rant" on the Symantec/Ask issue

Few days ago, I tried using Ask Search to search the internet to see myself if there is no more point of blocking the products that have Ask toolbar or Ask Search and I'm not happy with the result because I don't like it, I don't recommend it for below reasons:
1. Too much sponsored ads (3 to 4). It can victimized new users to visit a site that is rogue or malicious. Ask do not maintain safe browsing tool or phishing database like Google and Windows Live have so why use another?
2. If a toolbar with Ask Search is installed, you need to install or allow ActiveX component to be able to change the settings of Ask's PopSwatter.


The Ask's PopSwatter is included in any toolbar that has Ask Search service. And this settings method chosen by Ask is vulnerable and remain unpatched.
3. If a user will install the toolbar with Ask Search and there's no Firefox in the system, the installer will create the Mozilla Firefox folder and the add the ask files in the extension directory that it also created in the Firefox folder.

4. Ask Search is using 3rd party service, Othersonline.com. I don't see this mention in their EULA (whether the service is safe or not, it's not what it is about. Their EULA should say that they are using Othersonline.com to serve sponsored ads). Othersonline.com is the one that provide Ask's users the ads. This is obvious 3rd party which will have your search information. Why use Ask search service if Google, Live and Yahoo search services do not have to pass your search results to another entity? The communication is between the user and the search service only. With Ask Search the communication is between the user>Ask>Othersonline.com
5. Whether you start searching in the toolbar or not, the toolbar with Ask Search will connect the first time to Othersonline.com. Just fire-up the browser with Ask Search Service in whoever_made_toolbar then watch the http traffic.


As to Symantec's response to the consumers opinion regarding the addition of Ask Search in their Norton Safe Web plug-in/toolbar:

Page 1: http://community.norton.com/norton/board/m...ding&page=1

Symantec said:

We’re working with Ask.com to create a safer search environment for Norton users. By partnering with Ask.com we can offer server-side security features embedded in search results that cannot be achieved with Norton 360 alone. Through this partnership Symantec gets access to a major search engine to help enhance Norton Safe Web site ratings. Search is a fundamental part of the online user experience and it underlies most online activities. By embedding the search box in the Norton toolbar, we make it easy for users to access and benefit from the Safe Search feature.

Don't Symantec and other security vendors who bundled their application with Ask search failed to realize that most browsers has built-in search bar already? So why another search bar?
Why not just say that it is to earn more money instead of saying the above?

Symantec said:

Norton Safe Web will continue to annotate Google, Yahoo and Microsoft Live search results, and users have the option to turn off the feature and control how they use it.

Another funny statement by Symantec because it's funny to see they can actually help protect search results without adding search service.

Page 2: http://community.norton.com/norton/board/m...ding&page=2

Symantec said:

I have just reviewed all comments posted in this thread and would like to provide the following clarifications regarding the Norton toolbar and the Safe Search functionality.

Norton toolbar. The toolbar that is part of Norton 360 v3.0 is the Norton toolbar that serves as the primary user interface for several key Web-based features, including:
1. Anti-phishing
2. Identity Safe (allowing users to manage the passwords and login securely from the browser)
3. Norton Safe Web
Since all of these facilitate safe browsing activities, users need to be able to access them from the browser.

No third-party toolbar. We do not embed a third-party toolbar in Norton 360 v3.0. The search box that is included as part of the Norton toolbar is code written by Symantec. As part of N360 v3.0 installation, we do not install any third-party toolbar.

Dear Symantec,
It's not just about the toolbar. It's about the partnership that you have with a service that has bad practices or a company that ignore the reports regarding their service and products. The service or product that is detected until now by some scanners as 'infection' or some sort of unwanted application or registry keys in the system.

Symantec said:

Data privacy. If you use the Safe Search box, Symantec does not send any information other than the actual search query to Ask.com. If you have hidden the Safe Search box, Symantec does not send any information to Ask.com.

Right but Ask will send the information to Othersonline.com by passing the traffic.
And then users who will try another application or online scanners to scan their system for unwanted programs or malicious program that existing antivirus or antimalware missed, they will see that their trusted program installed unwanted program:
http://vil.nai.com/v...dated_pups.aspx (Ask is one of the PUPs, guys) and by installing the Ask Service in whoever toolbar, user will get the registry key that belongs to FunWebProducts that is considered Adware by Norton itself.

Symantec said:

Streamlined install. To ensure fast and easy installation, we minimize the use of install options. We made this enhancement based on user feedback and our experience that users want to get through install as quickly as possible. Our default configurations are designed to provide maximum protection out of the box. That said, the toolbar can be easily configured from the Norton menu on the toolbar as well standard toolbar controls (e.g., right click).

In the case of Safe Search, we chose to enable it by default because we consider it a core security feature associated with Norton Safe Web. Search is a fundamental part of the online user experience and underlies most online activities. By embedding the search box into the Norton toolbar, we make it easy for consumers to access and benefit from Safe Search.

Fully configurable. All toolbar related features can be configured by the user.

Right again. Fully configurable and that's why the distributors of the service/application/installer can do whatever they can do with their installer by adding what they want to add without the knowledge of Ask. That Ask has no knowledge on what the distributor/bundler have done to user's systems?
And the consumers protection is limited to few features only if they opted to disable the toolbar. That's not nice. They pay, they beta-test and what they will get is the partnership that is beneficial to Ask and Symantec, Comodo, ZoneLabs, StopZilla and Webroot but none of it is essential to the program that people paid or downloaded.

And then users who want the better features can get it as Add-on Pack but users who do not want Ask Search/Toolbar, it is not in the add-on pack.

Enough of my rant. The sticky in the Calendar of Updates will remain implemented and CoU will only remove any vendors in the list if:
1. Ask's products or services is no longer detected by any trustworthy scanners as PUP, Adware
2. Ask will stop the bad practices (see items #1 to 5) and whatever practices that other researcher have found and existing.
3. Any vendor who decide to stop adding the search service that is non-essential service/product in their core application.

[MysteryFCM]

Nice one

[glenn30]

MysteryFCM, on Feb 21 2009, 05:28 AM, said:

Nice one

Yes it is! For some time, I have made it a practice to stay away from all those products.

[hewee]

Before you know it they will start installing Hal9000 on all new computers and we will really be in trouble.

http://jsbiff.net/hal9000.jpg

My wallpaper on the Admin account so when things go wrong I can talk to HAL9000.
http://www.carlspeare.com/hal9000.jpg

[roddy32]

My next computer will be custom made with NO software except what I specify myself.

[glenn30]

roddy32, on Feb 21 2009, 11:48 AM, said:

My next computer will be custom made with NO software except what I specify myself.

I am with you... so will mine.